Skimmer Says... John Dickinson Plantation!

Take a walk through history with us as we chat with Annie from the John Dickinson Plantation (JDP)! As one of our closest partners, DNERR holds multiple collaborative programs with the folks at JDP. To learn more about their site and programs, visit: https://history.delaware.gov/john-dickinson-plantation

To contact the education team about an education program or volunteer event, email us at dnerrprograms@delaware.gov.

You can follow us on Facebook at @DNERR or Instagram at @delawarenerr.

Transcript

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Welcome to Skimmer Says an estuarine podcast, hosted by the Delaware National Estuarine Research Reserve. Where are your hosts? My name is Laurel. I'm Sadie. And today we have our great friend and colleague from the John Dickinson Plantation, Annie Fenimore. Annie, would you like to introduce yourself? Sure. My name is Annie Fenimore, and I am the lead historic site interpreter at the John Dickinson Plantation. The John Dickinson Plantation is our closest neighbor, and we love to collaborate with them. So what can you give us? A general overview of what the John Dickinson Plantation is and what we're going to learn there? Yeah, absolutely. So the John Dickinson Plantation is a museum and historic site that has been open to the public since the 1950s. Today, you can tour the historic mansion, which was built in stages but first completed in 1739. And you can also experience our six reproduction outbuildings to get a sense of what life was like on a historic plantation in the 18th and early 19th centuries. You can also visit our current visitor center, which has a film about John Dickinson, his life, his politics. And focuses mostly on him. But what we do at the Plantation is talk about as many people stories as possible. So we incorporate the stories of the people who were enslaved, indentured and free on the site. The tenant farmers and basically everybody. We can talk about trades people, crafts people, the list goes on. Awesome, awesome. Well, we're really excited to dive in. I know that we do a lot of programing with you folks over there. So before we jump in to the John Dickinson Plantation, we always like to start with a game time. Are you ready? Sure. All right. So, Sadie put together a would you rather. Oh, so we have a few would you rathers. So the first one is would you rather jump to any point in the past or the future? Well, since the future is a complete unknown, I think I'd rather jump to a point in the past. At least I know what's going on then. What point in the past? Oh I get to pick? You get to pick. Okay. That's a tricky one. There's so much of history that would be cool to experience firsthand, but also maybe scary. Depends on where you're jumping. For Dover history, I think it would be really cool to be one of the first people walking into the historic State House on The Green. Though I will mention, as a woman, I don't know if I'd actually get to walk in, so I'd have to dress up as a guy. Pretend. Yeah. But in 1792, I think it would be, I’d jump then. That would be cool. That would be fun. I know when we were making these questions, we were asking the office and like seeing what their answers were too. And we got a lot of mixed things. And my biggest thing was you're going to jump that far back, but it might not be the greatest point in history. I think Akshay wanted to be in the cowboy era. Oh. Well, there's only room for one cowboy in this town, so you gotta be careful with that one. Be really careful there. Yeah, it was really a mixed bag in our office when we were like, where do you want? Where would you want to go? And. And I was like, I really don't know because you jump too far back and there's like tuberculosis. Well, tuberculosis is still a thing. But there's like, the plague, and you jump too far back and you're like, oh, I lifespan at 29 years? Maxed out already. Oh, so. But then the future is, like, so unknown that we're, like, not sure where it is that we would want to go. Yeah, that's the tricky thing, though. I did give my answer based on the idea that I would get to come back. Sure. So if that's not the case, I might have a different answer. It's just going to visit for a day and then circle back. Yeah. So that's my hope. Like I'm thinking time machine very, you know, walks back into it. Yeah. Yeah. Just a short back into the Golden Fleece Tavern and boop 2025. Exactly. All right, so next one. Would you rather make candles or brew tea all day long? Like, that's your job. I think as a job, I would prefer to brew tea all day. It's it's, definitely less labor intensive. You don't have to be around a super hot fire in. Well, in the summer, maybe. I'd still brew tea all day. Boiling some water, putting some tea in it. You get to have a little bit. Yeah, if there's leftover. I agree. I think that I've done both of those things with you. I've made candles with you and I’ve brewed tea with you. Through some of our like, collaborative programs. And I just love tea. So I'm going with brewing tea all day long. So you had to brew your tea all day long. What kind would it be? If I'm drinking it, I would prefer to brew a black tea like English breakfast or English afternoon tea. If I'm brewing it for other people, it doesn't really matter. I do whatever they order. I'm envisioning running a, like, tea house. So I think I would like to jump to the point in time that I could just do that for a job. Like we also talk about that sometimes of, like, if, if we love our jobs asterisk there, but like if we didn't have to work to live and we could just do something fun, what would we do? I think that's my new answer. I would just have a tea house. I have people come in for tea and scones and that's it. Then they leave. That sounds really nice. All right, Annie, this is your last one. Would you rather attend a poetry reading with Emily Dickinson or attend an original Shakespearean play in England? I didn't think of this question. Sadie, why do you make such a hard question? I wanted to know what you would say. You have poetry, have plays. I don't have an answer. I can't. It's hard. I think for the experience of also being in England, I pick the Shakespearean play. Feels like something as an American, I won't get to do otherwise. Visit the globe in England. Yeah. Though thinking about how many other people will be stuffed into the theater is a little intimidating. But again, you're hopping back into your time machine. Zooming back. You only have to endure it for a little bit. I can handle that. Yeah. Yeah. I think I would choose the play too. I think I could be convinced to go to play, but I really can't choose. If we had, like, a little girls trip, now you're going to see Shakespeare. But otherwise you want to hang out with Emily Dickinson? I think so, because I do like poetry. Yeah, and I think that'll be fun to experience, though, like through old timey poetry. Awesome. Yeah. All right, so I guess we should dive back into John Dickinson Plantation. Sure. So the first question that we have for you is, who is he? Who is John Dickinson? Now, that's a fair question. A preeminent scholar on him Likes to call him a forgotten founder, which I think is fair. He, he was born in Maryland, grew up in Delaware, went away to school in England for a few years, and then became a lawyer in Pennsylvania. And he got deeply involved in politics. He served during, the years leading up to the revolution in a multitude of political roles. But he was one of Pennsylvania's representatives at the Continental Congress when they were deciding on independence in 1776. Now, people say that the reason he wasn't remembered was because he decided not to sign the Declaration of Independence. He had originally voted against independence. He thought that we were not ready to fight the greatest military power in the world at the time, which is fair. Yeah. He can’t predict the future. Exactly. So he picked up a musket and decided to fight during the Revolutionary War on the side of the Patriots for the cause of independence. After the war, he then continued to be a, involved in politics, and he helped to frame the United States Constitution, which, of course, we still are existing under today. So he was a very involved political figure. At the same time that he was involved in politics, he had a plantation here in Delaware and other land holdings throughout the state, as well as in Pennsylvania, where he had people that he enslaved. He made the decision in 1786, right before the Constitution was signed into being the law of the land, that he was going to free everybody he enslaved. So perhaps because of the Constitution, we don't know for sure why he did it exactly then. But the timing is very interesting. So he was someone who was rather complicated, incredibly involved in politics. But, when he died in 1808, there wasn't a lot of political writing that he left behind. He didn't leave memoirs like other founding fathers. So he kind of got delegated to the side and forgotten. Yeah. It's a little bit easier to dive deep into people that give you a lot of tea, a lot of information as opposed to those that don't. So what is some of the history of the plantation? Like, why is it put in an important place? Who else lived there? Because I know you often, well, not you, but it's often referred to as the boyhood home of John Dickinson. So can you give us a little bit of a background on that? Sure. So the reason it's called his boyhood home is he really did live there, mostly from the ages of 8 to 18, when his family moved from Maryland there he was eight years old, and then he didn't really live there full time as an adult. His parents did. Mary and Samuel Dickinson lived there from 1740 to 1760. When Samuel Dickinson died, Mary stayed on for a few more years. We're not sure of the exact timeline, but then she left the plantation as well, and it became a, tenant farm on that tenant farm. There were also enslaved people, like I mentioned earlier, people that the Dickinson family held enslaved. And also later on, people that tenant farmers held enslaved. So the Dickinson plantation originally was also much larger. We have about 450 acres today in the property. But John Dickinson, at the height of his ownership, had 5000 acres. So the variety of people who lived on the land he owned here in the Jones Neck area was large. Yeah. And so that probably would have encompassed the area that we're on today. Almost certainly. Yeah. And it is tied pretty closely to the Saint Jones River. Why would they be looking to build a home or a plantation back near the river, or close to the river? Why here? Why here? Absolutely. So the reason for anyone building buildings near rivers historically, is to be close to, what was the superhighway of the day. Rivers and waterways were how people transported goods and themselves. It was it was the way to get around. In the 18th century, there were roads. Not to say there weren't roads. There absolutely were. But they weren't as quick. They weren't always in the best shape. There were sometimes ruts and potholes. I mean, it's not like we don't have that today, but it's different on a dirt road. And that was prior to the interstate system, so had to do a lot more side trips. Yeah. Do you know what was farmed in this area? Like what their major crops were that they were growing? Yeah. So originally when Samuel Dickinson moved his family from Maryland to Delaware, he had been a tobacco farmer, and merchant in Maryland. And so he brought tobacco farming here with him. It wasn't very successful. Tobacco was known as the vampire crop because it takes the nutrients from the soil and doesn't replenish it. So it after some, less than successful tobacco crop fields, he went to corn and wheat being the main crops, and they remained some of the main crops today. Awesome. So we're zooming back to the future. Okay. What is now offered at the site? What can people come and do at JDP? Yes. So we are open for tours of our mansion Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and also Sunday afternoons. We add Sunday afternoons from April through September. And then remove them for the winter season. But the mansion tours are about a half an hour long. People get to see the first floor of that building, and get to hear a variety of stories. We talk about Dinah and her daughter Nancy, and how their journey from enslavement to freedom was, more complicated. One is we're finding out from the documents. We also talk about Nathan Phillips and his family's story and how he and his wife were reunited. Come visit us for more. We also talk about, what life would have been like on the Plantation in terms of what was made on the property, what was grown on the property, and how people would have really lived. Although people get to visit this large brick building. That's not how the majority of Kent Countians lived. We have a log dwelling on the property, which we point out and encourage people to go inside and visit, although it's not a stop on the tour. We do explain that it is how the majority of people lived, whether they were enslaved, indentured, or free, whether they were white or black. That is the standard type of home in the 18th and early 19th centuries. So that is one other thing people can experience. We have a simple machines exhibit inside of our granary building, and people can walk around our grounds and read the signs that tell them more about our reproduction outbuildings. Our current visitor center also has the exhibit that talks about five very different lived experiences on the property. It's called the Five Stories exhibit. That is pretty cool. I love your exhibits, and I've been on your tours, and I always bring my team when they first start so that they know one of our closest partners. You've been talking about your current visitor center and exciting news that we have a new building coming on Kitts Hummock Road. Correct? Absolutely. We do. Really, if you drive, south on Route One, past our site, you can see the steel that's already. It’s hard to miss right now. It is, but we're very excited to be getting a new visitor center. We had a groundbreaking last fall. And we're really looking forward to it being completed so we can move into the space. That will offer us a lot of flexibility and a lot of novelty. We're going to have a new exhibit that talks about the history of the site from Native Americans through the Dickinsons and the community that lived here in the 18th century. And talks about how we move forward and what our connections to today are. Awesome. So we really love doing joint programs with you all. Do you want to talk about some of the joint programs that we do here? Yeah, absolutely. So I love everything that we do. But one of my favorite programs is the Tea Time with History and Science Program, where we have the public come in to learn about literally the history of tea. But also, Mollie talks about her research and how teabags are used in experiments today in data collection. So with the tea time part, how we have the teas to sample for the public is, I think, a really special thing, that not a lot of places get to do. I agree, I love that program, and it also lets me live out my dreams of my tea shop. So because I get to be the tea brewer and the tea deliverer, that's always really fun because I'm not the expert in either of the things that you all talk about. Mollie's the expert in, like, the tea bag study that. Stay tuned. We'll talk about that as well. But you're the expert in historic teas. I just get to soak up so much information every single time. Like I am water taking in tea. It's also one of my favorite programs. That's because we always get to taste test. Yeah. We got to make sure it tastes right before we send it out to everyone else. Yeah, absolutely. What other sorts of things do we do together, Annie? We have our Bayberry Candle workshop where you all come over to our property to talk about the bayberry plant and the nature side of things, which I am definitely not an expert in. And then we get to take folks through a candle dipping workshop. Which you've also experienced dipping your own candles, and it can be, like I said, it's labor intensive. It is labor intensive, but it's also so fun. I have them in my office. My my years of candles just like staggered. Stay tuned. We're going to have one this fall as well. Awesome. Can't wait. And we also do a lot of school programs together and so that students can get a little taste of history and a little taste of science. That's also one of the cool things. And I think that, like, it's fun when you get to do a combo experience. So kids get to come over here and learn all about the science and hang out with you and learn all about the history. And they learn so many fun things, and I wish I was a kid again. But alas, I'm not. Can I second that? Yeah. All right. So one of the things that we do here when we do our podcasts, we are very close with our coastal section within DNREC. So we always ask them if they have any questions so that we can, like, get some things that maybe we hadn't thought about. And they always think of such like intelligent. And to get new perspectives. Yeah. And new perspectives. So I have two here that we have not already covered. When was JDP established like as a site that people could come see. Okay. Yes. As a museum. Yeah. It was definitely the 1950s. And if you're looking for a specific date, I'm racking my brain for it. If I'm remembering correctly. The site first opened as a museum in 1956. So next year is going to be our 70th anniversary. Of being open to the public just a little bit older than us, because what did we celebrate this year? 32. So, like, halfway there, and then, this was another one that they wanted to know. Is JDP part of a state office or run independently? Yes. So the John Dickinson Plantation is one of the six museums owned and operated by the Division of Historical and Cultural Affairs, which is in the Department of State. So we are a state owned and operated museum. The other museums that are also in the Division of Historical and Cultural Affairs, if I can run them down, really quickly. Are the Old State House Museum and Johnson Victrola Museum in Dover. The Zwaanandael Museum in Lewes, the New Castle historical. I'm so sorry. The New Castle Court House Museum in historic New Castle and Cooch's Bridge Historic site, which, although that museum doesn't have regular hours for the public to visit, group tours can be booked. Awesome. Is there anything else that you would like to share with us today about anything of the work that you all do over there, or the programs that you run, things that we might have missed? What? Is there anything else people need to know? That is such a good question. I think that one of the things that I would love to share is that we have programing throughout the year, that is special and different than our usual mansion tours and outdoor experiences. We have a historic Trades Day every fall in October on the second Saturday of that month. Check out our Facebook page if you haven't. And, we also have a really robust group of people who are going to be demonstrating historic trades, particularly in the fiber arts section. So if that's something you're interested in, come on out and see us. That is so exciting. Well, Annie, thank you so much for joining us today. Sadie and I learned something new every single time that we're together. So for all of you, thanks for tuning in. That's what the skimmer has to say about the John Dickinson Plantation. And we hope to see you again next month. See you soon. Bye.